Interview with an Aruban
'Walter', who is from Aruba (so I understand) has posted here before, and I think he might be able and wiling to rationally and calmly discuss the ins and outs of Natalee's investigation (something that no Aruban has been willing or able to do so far). There are two things to keep in mind here: first, this is (as far as I know, but I don't know who Walter really is) not Beth's crusaders versus the Aruban spin machine. It is not intended to be a Aruba says/we say affair either. It is two guys from opposite sides of an issue who are going to try to shed some light on their differences in opinion. I warned Walter that he has a very tough sell to make, but I think we agree on the format. Now that I have posted this, I invited Walter via e-mail to post a list of concerns he has as an Aruban. I will then reply to each point in turn, either answering his questions or arguing the point as I see it from an American point of view. I will at some point swtich places with him and go on the defensive, of course. Second, this will be an ongoing project as long as Walter wants to continue and as long as I think it is productive. What I don't want is for either of us to keep repeating the same contentions without elaborating.
Why am I doing this? Well, because I want to explore how much of the downright nasty feelings between Americans and Arubans is based on misconceptions and misunderstandings, and how much really does suggest cover-up, corruption, or just incompetence. I am not convinced that Arubans fully understand Americans, and vice-versa.
Ok, Walter, it is all yours.
Why am I doing this? Well, because I want to explore how much of the downright nasty feelings between Americans and Arubans is based on misconceptions and misunderstandings, and how much really does suggest cover-up, corruption, or just incompetence. I am not convinced that Arubans fully understand Americans, and vice-versa.
Ok, Walter, it is all yours.
posted by Dan in Tx | 7:10 PM
21 Comments:
Do we readers get to have any input on what you say or ask while representing our American view? Just curious. (So many times the media just seem to be giving Aruba air time and only rarely follow an actual point of contention... like why did they throw away the belt that look just like the one from the photo of Joran with his friend... saying it was too old. That kind of input.
Good question. The agreement was between me and Walter; however, feel free to post your questions and concerns as well- I will be happy to consolidate them and address them as well.
Yo Everybody,
First of All, I would like to thank Dan for this opportunitty. Yes, Dan and I have pretty much agreed on the format, but it isn't set in stone. If Dan agrees, everybody who has any (positive) input, can participate. Just keep in mind, that this was meant to be as a chain of "open letters' between Dan and me.
Also remember, I am but 1 out of about 100,000 Arubans, so I will try to convey my point of view, and what I sense being the feelings of the Arubans in general, as per the matter of Natalee Holloway, but it doesn't have to, and probably will not, represent the point of view of all Arubans.
The first thing I would like to do is to clear the air as per the "hate" Arubans feel towards the U.S. Aruba has never had anything but a great relationship with the US.
People musn't forget, before 1926, when the LAGO refinery opened on Aruba, Aruba had less then 8,000 inhabitants, and the main metheod of transportation was to ridew on a donkey. The refinery came and brought a gigantic change to Aruba and propelled it head first into the 20th century. Later, again the US came through, when in 1958 the first 'high-rise' resort was build (The Aruba Caribean Hotel). Back then pretty big shows came to Aruba as per entertainment for the Amercan guests (I am talking Lucille Ball, the Rat Pack, etc.).
Later, of about 250,000 tourists coming to Aruba yearly, Venezuela took the brunt, with the US being a close second. After 1985, when the refinery got closed down, and the government decided to focus on Tourism as the new pillar of economy, guess who came through again for Aruba: Yep, the US. Out of approx. 1.1 million tourists in 2004, about 67% came out of the US.
Now, to think that we as Arubans would hate the US is ludicrous (Hell, we even have a Forward Operating Location for F-16 and other Drug-searching planes in Aruba and Curacao).
What we do hate though is the fact that the US media has put Aruba in such a negative spotlight, whithout checking facts. Poeple like Geraldo, Nancy, Greta, Bill, etc have used the Natalee Holloway Case to spruce up their ratings, and put Aruba in a negative light. They have attacked our judicial system, without bothering to check-out first how it is set-up. As per that, just a reminder, our judicial system is based on the Dutch system, which was already in place before Columbus was even born. Does that make it fail-safe: NO. But show me a Judicial system that is perfect, and I will show you a goose that lays golden eggs.
Another point I have at this moment is Dr. Phil: has nobody noticed that Oprah hasn't dared to touch the subject of NH yet (or barely), while Dr.Phil was all over it. How come he hasn't commented on the fact that the Dutch Forensic Institute has analyzed the tapes, and found that the ones from Dr. Phil have been doctored? So much that even the FBI has asked (and received) the tapes. If you want to see the original tapes and audio, you can check out scrux.com where they are available. You can even see and hear Deepak say that they did NOT have sex with her.
Another point I have, is this: we must ALL not forget what is the MOST important thing in this case: NATALEE MUST BE FOUND. Is it important to know what JVDS and K2 did? YES. What about the role of PVDS? YES. Is it more important then finding NATALEE? NO. Now I have been on several Blogs (Riehl, Scrux, Arubaboycott (which is the worst of all idiots), etc), and have seen bloggers calling Natalee almost the Jesus Christ re-incarnate, while other Bloggers are calling her the slut of te century. Like I stated in my first post ever to DAN, don't assume to know somebody you haven't met. Was she the good all-american Christian innocent girl next door? Well, I have heard form at least one source (to remain anonymous) who has seen the security tapes of the Holiday Inn, during the stay of the MB kids there, that they had converted it in Soddom and Gomora (not sure if it is spelled right), and that on several parts of the tapes you can see that she was a willing participant. How willing I couldn't find out, other than that she partcipated in a lot of drinking. For confirmation we will have to wait till the tapes become available. BUT, does that mean that she was a slut? I don't know, because, just like anybody else commenting on this case, I haven't met the girl.
Next, working in Tourism in Aruba, I get asked the following A LOT by US guests: What do you think happened with NATALEE? And I have to answer, truthfully, I DON'T KNOW. As much as I hate that fact I don't have any clue as to what happened to her. Since she has gone I have read so many theories, that the only one that is still left to mention, is that E.T. took her home. I mean, come on.
Now, DAN, I would like to thank you again for this opportunity. I do think that this might be a fruitful way of having a discussion on the matter. I still have a lot more to say on this, but I don't want to take over your website, so I will await your input on this post, and if anybody has questiosn, please feel free to post them I thinkj it will be interesting to see both Dan and mine reaction on your question.
Ayo,
Walter in Aruba
Welcome back, Walter.
First, I would like to confirm that yes I did (barely) manage to make it to the TES rally held in downtown Houston, Texas this past Friday night. I did get to meet Beth Twitty and Tim Miller personally, though I only got to talk to Beth for about 15 minutes. More about that at the end; for now, keep in mind that nearly everyone there was a TES member or supporter/donor and many of them were involved in the Aruba search.
OK, first I will address Walter's post above, and I will try to go point-by-point and make some comments and pose questions for him to reply to.
1. Dutch System
The problem Americans have with this Dutch system is twofold. First, it has yet to produce any demonstratable progress in eight months. Lets look at what the situation was regarding Natalee's disappearance on June 1, 2005:
no Natalee. No suspects. No active and full FBI participation. But at that point there was no reason to believe this wouldn't be solved and the family had all the Aruban sympathy. Now, eight months later as of today: no Natalee. No new suspects. No active and full FBI participation. But now we also have no sympathy for the family from the Aruban government and little trust from Natalee's family or most Americans. Walter, these are the important thing to realize when you speak about this wonderful Dutch system: the American system is much different (regular contact with victims families and even the media, aggressive questioning policies, with full defense lawyer representation) and yet manages to solve plenty of crimes. The first issue you should address is why we are eight months into this and can see no demonstratable, undeinable progress? And keep in mind that assuring us that things are happening or going well won't work: Americans value results and accountability!
The second is that lack of accountability. There was at one point an investigator from Curacao reviewing ALE's methods and actions so far. What happened to him? What ahs he found? Oduber recently promised a full review and investigation as well after the case is closed. He makes a dangerous assumption that it will be closed, but again after eight months of no progress...America expects much more by now. Who is making sure that things are done correctly NOW? If corrupt or incompetent people are in charge still, how can anyone expect this to be 'solved'? And incidentally, letting the case go unsolved or 'cold' does not fit into this definition. When I say solved I mean people have been charged and convicted of whatever they did to Natalee, just to be clear.
2. There have been far too many things that have gone without explanation. Evidence and witnesses have disappeared (like the many bones people have turned in and the girls who said Joran raped them too but suddenly are afraid to testify- why are they afraid)? Debates still exist that have not been settled (doctored tapes versus edited tapes, altered statements Beth signed), questionable actions or lack thereof that have not been rectified or even addressed except to say, 'mistakes were made'). If Aruba wants Americans to trust them again, EACH AND EVERY one of the controversies to date must be explained fully and without room for any interpretation or debate.
3. While we're on the subjects of unprofessionalism and incompetence, let's look at the key ALE players. We are to understand that Karin Janssen has convicted people of murder before without a body. Do we have any proof this is a valid claim? She sure hasn't exhibited any investigative magic so far- and if she's so good why hasn't she demonstrated this skill? Where are the fireworks she promised? What about Dennis Jacobs, the investigator that Beth and Jug first approached, who was more concerned with how much (bribe) money they had than starting a search? Is he still on staff? Has he even been investigated for this suspicion of soliciting bribes? Jan Van Der Straaten- has anyone investigated his actions and handling of the investigation in its early days? If not, why not? Once again, questions about these people's competency and honesty must be squarely and finally settled. The key thing to remember here, Walter, and the most important issue between Aruba and the U.S. is- talk is cheap. If you want us to trust you again, PROVE what you claim is true! PROVE that you are making progress! PROVE that you want full FBI support- let them have access to all evidence for their review and professional comment, or even abtetr make them full partners! You can and probably will claim that ALE is now working with them, but why was ALE so hesitant to follow proper channels and prcedures to gain access to the MB kids? Why question them NOW instead of eight months ago?
Those who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear, Walter. To me, Aruba seems to be hiding a lot.
4. As for the presence of the DEA on Aruba and elsewhere: presence does not equal copperation. The FBI was involved in this investigation after all, but they left Aruba twice in utter disgust at the way they were allowed next to no INVOLVEMENT. How do we know the DEA is any different?
But while we're on the subject of Aruba's past history with the U.S., please tell us about the many investigations and charges of corruption, money laundering, and drug smuggling that has involved Aruba since 1980? I'm thinking specifically of the Carauna-Cuntreras debacle of the late 1980s and before that I believe an entire political party was ousted because of corruption? Isn't Rudy Croes under investigation for misappropriating a helicopter and for asking for bribes from labor contractors and construction companies? With a past and present history of corruption in government, why should Americans believe any different? I know what you're going to say, Walter- the U.S. has plenty of corruption scandals too, and this is true. However, one thing the U.S. has that Aruba seems to lack is a system of finding and stopping such corruption!
There is a real difference between the Aruban people and their government. From what people who were in Aruba (Joe Huston of TES, Dave Holloway, Beth Twitty, and reporter Chuck Geiss) have told me, there is a divide between the honest, sympathetic, and helpful Aruban citizens and the corrupt, unsympathetic, lying Aruban government and ALE!
5. There is a big question among the family and Natalee's supporters in the U.S.: if ALE is progressing and doing a good job behind the scenes somehow, why does the ATA keep hiring people like Dompig and 'Aruba Steve' Cohen to say things on air again and again and again that always end up to be gross overstatements, contradictions, or lies? Wouldn't that money be better spent hiring new investigators or bringing in a fully independent oversight review from the Netherlands? If ALE is doing such a good job, why do they feel the need to make excuses for everything? I wonder- are these spin doctors trying to persuade Americans, or Arubans of ALE's progress?
By the way- the claim that the ATA and others make that Americans think the ALE is doing a good job is a LIE. Polls show that 74% of Americans think the ALE and Aruban government are doing a TERRIBLE job.
6. You seem to think that finding Natalee will somehow solve the case. Obviously so, but unless you think we should hope someone comes forward with some case-shatetring revelation someday- all the while her family suffers from not knowing and if she is alive she suffers who knows what teatment- doesn't it make more sense to keep pressure on the LAST THREE PEOPLE known to be with her until they crack? Of course we need to find Natalee! But you seem to have the ends and the means mixed up. Looking for Natalee is not the way to solve the case...solving the case is the way to find Natalee.
7. None of us know Natalee personally for sure, this is true. However, there are two things I've noticed. Many Mountain Brook classmates who DO know Natalee have gone on the record- on air, publicly- and talked about her character and they had nothing bad to say about her. But Dompig has suggested hearing otherwise from these same kids off the internet- where there is NO WAY to verify this information he has is correct. So we have the people who know Natalee affirming her good character in front of millions of TV viewers and in newspaper interviews but people who have not ever met Natalee claiming the same people say differently with no way of verifying this! It is the difference between personal testimony (what the MB kids ahve said on air and in news articles) and rumors (what someone who claims to be a MB student said via the internet). My second observation is, EVERYONE who has sugegsted Natalee was not an absolutely great person has either been pro-Aruba or FROM Aruba. Coincidence? I don't think so.
And one last thing: a VICTIM is a VICTIM, plain and simple. To suggest that natalee is somehow not worthy of this attention or deserved her fate is a perfect example of how Aruban government, the ATA, and their spin doctors has shown an utter lack of sympathy for the victim and her family.
8. Finally, let me tell you what I heard the TES members who were on Aruba saying at that rally. They all said the same thing about their experience on Aruba: the average Aruban citizens were very supportive, kind, helpful, and concerned. But each and every one of these same people had nothing but criticism to offer the Aruban GOVERNMENT. If Arubans think we hate them, they're wrong. We hate the MEP and their current officials, plain and simple. The question is, does anyone have the ability or the courage to tell Arubans this?
Hi Dan,
I hope you will put up a post of your meeting with BT and co. I know I am interested in what you guys talked about.
Now as per your post, here goes:
1) Dutch System:
No Natalee: correct; No suspects: not true, there are 3 suspects, but there is not even enough evidence to bring them in for questioning, let alone start a court case against them. The burden of proof in the Dutch system is pretty high, which has it’s advantages, but also it’s drawbacks. No active and full FBI participation: correct, last time we checked, Aruba is a souvereign state, NOT related in any political way with the USA, so that means that the FBI, has aboslutely NO jurisdicion in Aruba. The FBI was asked by the Aruban government to come and help, as we have almost no experience in cases like this, and because the missimng person was a US citizen. But just like our police cannot just like that go to the US and do whatever we want, the FBI also cannot come to Aruba and do a full investigation. And I am not saying that the Dutch system is great, I am saying that even though it is a system that is older then the existence of the US, it still has it’s drawbacks, just like any other judicial system in the world, but like the US system, you are innocent until proven guilty. You are saying that in your system there is regular contact with victims families and even the media, but having a cousin who is a lawyer in New York, I can confirm to you that contact with families and media is only as long as it doesn’t hinder the investigation, or maybe even to use the media to help with the investigation, just like with our system. As per your aggressive questioning policies, a suspect just has to state that he or she needs a lawyer, and the questioning is over, even before the lawyer arrives.
But, why, after 8 months, no results yet? Well, ther are several factors: A) first and foremost, like most Arubans, I think that the ALE botched it up from the beginning. The whole stupidness of arresting these 2 security guards, without first checking out the story told by JK2, just is too amazingly dumb for words. B) The fact that the MB kids were alrady back in the US, and could not have been interviewed by the ALE is another problem. Many times, cases can be solved by checking the victims last days. C) No body. A body might have some incriminating evidence, which can point the ALE to the right direction. Haven’t you noticed how many times cases of serial killers get solved AFTER a body is found? D) Missing person cases are some of the most difficult cases to solve. See the statistics of your own CIA on their website.
Now, having said all that, NO, I wil not say that things are happening or going well. Just like you, we Arubans are also in the dark as per the progress of the ALE at this moment. And don’t forget: Arubans ALSO value result and accountability!
It was not an investigator, but a Judge that had to do an ‘impartial’ investigation on the ALE investigation methods. Read well, he had to check only the methods being used, and if the ALE was working according to the Dutch law, nothing else. He was and is not a part of the ALE investigation. All I remember is that according to his investigation, the ALE was working within the Dutch/Aruban laws. As per Oduber, he didn’t say that the case WILL be closed, you are making that assumption. He stated the IF and WHEN the case would be closed, after that he would launch an investigation in the DA’s office. As per charching or convicting people, for that you either have at least a body, and if that doesn’t exist, you must have VERY COMPELLING circumstantial evidence, which till this moment doesn’t exist. Frustrating, but true. And should ALE have anything at all at this moment, they are not showing anybody their cards.
2) As per evidence, the bones that people have turned in had been sent to the Netherlands Forensic Institute, where some wer found to be animal bones (goats if I remember well) while others were way too old to belong to Natalee. Old as in probably 30+ years ago burried. As per girls that said that Joran raped them, not one of them has gone to the police to file a complaint. And as far as I know it was only one. As per doctored tapes, please check out scrux.com for the full tapes, undoctored. Questions can be sent to Dr. Phil and Mr. Skeeters. Please explain the altered statement that Beth signed? As per questionable acts, that is what Oduber wants investigated, but only AFTER the case is closed. We also want explained what the hell went wrong from the beginning, but will also have to wait for answers.
3) Karin Janssen is as far as I am concerned a lost case. With the arrest of the 2 black security guards, she has lost any credibility with the Aruban population. If she has convicted people of murder without a body, then it happened when she was still working in the Netherlands. The past 10 years, except for Natalee, ALL bodies of murder victims were accounted for. And except for the case of the Bulgarian “businessman” being liquidated, all murderers have been caught, and prosecuted, or are awaiting their trial. Not bad for a corrupt, unproffesional and incompetent police force. So of about 15 murders (not counting Natalee, since we still don’t know what happened to her), ALL have been solved, and the perpetrators put behind bars. A 100% score. Show me ANYPLACE in the US where that has happened the past 10 years. As per Jacobs, was it confirmed as per the bribes part with BT and Jug? I still don’t know. But I know that they have put even more police officers on the case since then. Jan van der Straaten was the head commisioiner, so he had NO direct affiliation with the investigation. In the meantime he went with pension from the police of Aruba, but since Jan 1, 2006 is the interim head commisioner of Bonaire. As per the FBI, they received ALL evidence already in September last year. That is one of th ereasons that Karin Janssen will be fired also. She did it without permission of her boss, or the Minister of Justice Rudy Croes. But they have received everything that the ALE had, including the tapes of Skeeters, via the Dutch Forensic Institute. At this moment, as we speak, they should be in Mountain Brook, together with 2 ALE officers, talking to the MB kids. Don’t forget that the ALE has asked for permission at your State Department since July 2005 already to talk to the MB kids, but they never heard anything. They sent a second request again in October 2005, but only recently have they been given permission to come to the US to interview the kids. Don’t forget, just like the FBI has no jurisdiction in Aruba, ALE has no jurisdiction in the US. To be able to investigate in MB ALE needed the permission of your State Department, which for some reason only gave permission AFTER a congressman form Alabama, who had talked to Dompig about the case, put some pressure.
4) As per the DEA, they fly the planes, Aruba doesn’t. We have NOTHING to say over the F-16’s and other search planes being used. Aruba and Curacao just gave the US government some space on the airports to station th eplanes, and some office space. I as an Aruban cannot even enter these places, without prior written consent from the base leaders, and then only after a background check. But they are not doing any investigation here, they are investigating the Colombian jungle, and only AFTER signing a special treaty with Colombia, otherwise they would not have been allowed to enter Colombian airspace. The FBI is a foreign police force that was invited by ARUBA to come help with the investigation, and as far as I know they didn’t leave in disgust, and twice I have seen FBI officers, on Larry King Live state that the ALE is doing all that it can to solve the case. Not one utterance of disgust. Sorry, no political party has ever been ousted on Aruba for corruption. As per the involvement of Aruba in corruption, money laundering and drug smuggling: Corruption is everywhere, sad but true, asper money laundering and drug smuggling, aruba has been working together with the DEA, FBI, IRS, and US COAST GUARD to try to curb these 2 problems. Will it be possible to completely stop them, NO. As long as the US keeps providing a HUGE market for drugs, not only Aruba, but the whole Carribean and don’t forget Mexico will be used by Colombia drug lords, to send drugs to the US. I like the fact that everybody is foccusing on Aruba as being THE gateway for drugs to the US. While 2 years ago already a druglord that was caught and expedited to the US stated that they ship more drugs to the US via the Mexican-US border, then through the whole Caribbean. And sorry if I puke on the words of Beth, Dave and all, because when they started the boycott, then they should have thought about that. Only in the US people are still thinking that boycotts work, even after almost 50 years of boycotting Cuba to try to get rid of Castro (obviously didn’t work), and Irak to try to get rid of Saddam (You guys had to invade to get rid of him), and so on, you still think that a boycott will help. But in the meantime you couldn’t care less what happens to your so-called ‘innocent Arubans, as long as the so-called ‘innocent’ Natalee is found. The end justifies the means.
5) I am almost completely 100% in agreement with you on this point (see, I am honest). Just 2 small points: a) Dompig has nothing to do with ATA or AHATA, he is a police commisoner involved with the case, with a way too big mouth. A fully independent oversight review out of the Netherlands? Then why not a fully independent oversight review out of Great Britain to check the ‘weapons of massdestruction debacle’ of Bush. Sorry, we are a sovereign country, it is just that we have strong ties with the Netherlands. We have our OWN Prime Minister, our OWN Police force, and our OWN seat in the UN. But other than that, I agree with you on the waste of money the ATA is doing with Cohen. As per their reasons, you shoul ask them. As per the polls, I have seen different polls, showing different views. Could you point me to the 74% poll? BTW, I agree with the 74% poll.
6) Whoooo there cowboy, I never said that finding Natalee will solve the case. I said that solving the case is for me not the highest priority. My highest priority is finding Natalee! Period! If BT gets confronted by God ( or any other God for that matter) and gets the option to either convict the 3 (or 4) guys, without ever knowing for sure and finding the body OR finding the body, but the 3 (or 4) guys walk free, what do you think she will choose? Don’t forget, when she came on the plane to Aruba on that fatefull day, she wasn’t thinking about convicting anybody. She hadn’t even heard the names van der Sloot or Kalpoe yet. She came to find her daughter. It was when she was here that through investigation she heard the names of these guys. For me, and I did do some search dives for Natalee, the priority is finding Natalee, dead or alive, so that her parents can put this to bed. Assume that she is never found, and maybe (and that is a very BIG MAYBE) these guys go to jail, do you think Beth can rest? No, she still hasn’t been able to say goodbye to her child. I as a parent (and even steph-grand-parent) can tell you that you would rather be able to say goodbye to your child, dead or alive, then keep having the question in your head: What IF? Don’t forget also, the case might be solved, but that doesn’t mean that Natalee (or her body) will have been found.
7) Yo Dan, All I am saying is, you haven’t met her, and I did not either. Everything else is hear say. In your own judicial system hear-say isn’t admissable as evidence, so don’t use it now to paint a pretty picture. Remember what the neighbours thought of Jeffrey Daumer, a serial killer. Some of them thought he was the perfect bachelor, in the menatime he was killing people. And the same way you say that EVERYONE who suggested that Natalee was not an absolutely great person has been pro-Aruba, EVERYONE who suggested that Natalee was the ‘perfect Christian Girl” was Anti-Aruba. As long as I haven’t met her, I won’t put any judgement on her character. And I agree again with you, a Victim is a Victim, so whatever she was, good or bad or in-between, let’s find her first. The rest will come later.
8) He man, I hate the MEP and their current officials also (off course I didn’t vot efor them). And I’ll tell you something weirder, I personnally know many of them, Rudy Croes, Edisson Briesen, Marisol Lopes-Tromp, etc. But as per politicians, sorry, but they SUCK. And you can tell the Arubans that if you want to, no problem. I say iy every day, without a problem. Just make sure you know what you are saying. So have proof or some kind of reason why you think that. My wife (who is Dutch by the way) actually voted for them, so we have some nice discussions here at home, alomost everyday.
Allright man, your turn. I like the format, so let’s keep it going. And folks, send in your questions to both of us. I really would like to see both Dan and mine answers. I think everybody will be surprised how much we agree in certain points.
Walter
I'm preparing my rebuttal but I will wait until Thursday to let people pose questions. That and, hey, I have boycott tasks to work on!
wow, the holiday inn on aruba has surveillance cameras in the rooms?
what a revelation. makes me want to take a trip right now. and it must be true or walter wouldn't be getting these reports about how sluttish natalee was acting on aruba. were only the girls assigned to these video enabled rooms or are all the rooms wired?
enquiring minds want to know.
dennisintn
as late as early october, when dompig was blaming the mb kids for delays in the case, when pressed for a time schedule of when he was going to interview the mb kids, his excuse then was they were still formulating questions and they would go when they had that done. doesn't sound like the mb kids or u.s. authorization was the hold up, but rather a.l.e. to me.
dennisintn
Dennis- I believe there were only security cameras in the HI lobby/ public entry not the rooms themselves. Who would want a hotel room with a camera in it? Too creepy.
Anonymous 1:
Sorry if you misunderstood. The security camera's are in the lobby, around the swimming pool, at the beach and on the rest of the premisis (restaurants, casino, etc). Only you would think them in the room. I will try to be more specific for you in the future.
Anonymous 2:
No, they were waiting for permission of the State Department. As long as they were waiting, they could refine the questions, but no foreign police force is allowed to do any investigation in the US without permission of the State department.
This is an interesting site to read, for sure. However, I am compelled to address some things Walter has written.
First of all regarding the FBI and it's participation with ale. The problem most Americans have with this issue is very simple. Aruban government officials have many, many times gone on TV or stated in news print, or on the arubatruth website to brag about how much the FBI and ale are working together and have done so since this nightmare began. Interestingly, aruba also says while speaking with a forked tongue, that it is a sovereign country and not beholding to work with the FBI. Fine then, then claims by aruban officials stating differently should cease. Sadly, I think there is more cooperation with countries on terrorist watch lists than aruba has given the US.
Secondly, it doesn't matter if Natalee was Jezebel incarnate, what happened to her should not happen to anyone. I have to wonder how this case would have been handled if the PM's daughter had gone missing under similar circumstances here in the US.
To continue, I understand the issues with all this supposed found "evidence", and I use that word very loosely. I note you state all murderers have been caught with the exception of a Belgium businessman. This statement from aruba does not jive with all the human remains found in aruba which could not be traced back to Natalee. Here I am speaking of what you state were bones to old to be Natalee's. I am interested to know what happened to the bones kept in a police station desk in Noord. Are they still in the drawer? I find it frightening that on an island which promotes itself as being so safe, so many human remains, or evidence of at the very least suspicious activities have happened.
Lastly, one has to wonder about how the crime statistics are arrived at in aruba. Apparently, the law is designed in a manner that allows a crime to be condidered solved just because an arrest has been made. Interesting that this was the immediate reaction in this case with the arrest of the two security guards. Why are not the aruban people up in arms over those arrests made totally on false statements given by the 3 boys and one dad? Is it because neither one was an aruban citizen? Is this why there is no respect for Natalee or her family, because they are not aruban? I don't think that matters in the average aruban citizen's mind, but I do think it matters in the governments mind.
I thank you Walter for your posts. It is very valuable to see your and other arubans viewpoints. I thank you.
Hi Guys,
Finally some questions:
Dennisintn: You have never seen me use the word fornicating. As far as I remember I haven't called her a slut neither. I simply said, on video's, that are taken in the PUBLIC area's, you can see that the MB kids, of which Natalee was one, were, and I quote, chanching the HI into Soddom and Gomora. I could only get confirmed from my source that there was a lot of heavy drinking involved, where Natalee was a willing participant.
In fact, I have said several times that I am not willing to call her a good christian girl nor a slut uuntil I have met and known her for a while. Those are statements that can only be made if you know a person well.
Kackylaky:
The FBI has worked together, in that they have advised ALE, since ALE hardly has any experience with such cases, and if I remember well, they have sat in with a few of the interrogations, without being able to ask any questions themselves. But when the goverment states that Aruba is a souvereign state, which it is, they didn't say that they couldn't work with the FBI, they stated that the FBI could only ASSIST, not do any investigative work of themselves. It is the same now that Aruba had to ask the US State Department for permission to interrogate some of the MB kids, all the while having to hold hands with an FBI agent. Also, don't forget, Ariuba asked the FBI for assistance, NOT BT or DH.
I agree, it doesn't matter who Natalee was, or what she has done in her life, lets find her. I have been stating that from the begining.
When I talk about th ebehaviour of the MB kids at HI, including Natalee, I am only proving my point as per the building up of a character who, except for BT and DH and some MB kids, nobody really knows, and because of that it shouldn't matter. When I hear all these bloggers talking about NH being a good christian girl, I wonder if they would have cared if her name wouyld have been Natalee Camacho, or Natalee Obikwulu, or Natalee Hollostein?
Firts of all, it was a Bularian 'businessman'. Secondly, I don't know what you are talking about 'all these human remains'. The only remains found were some bones, that were sent to the Dutch Forensic Institute, which said that they were human, and that they were at least 30 years old. The stories about human remains in a desk drawer in Noord, were one of many internet crap stories. And even if you want to count the remains, which were found on the North Coast, they could have been from somebody who fell of a ship, drowned and who's remains were washed up on our North Coast, 30 years ago. Even if you count that 'murder', that constitutes 2 unsolved murders in 30 years. See if the police in your town, city or state can do better than that.
Lastly, No, the solving of a case with an arrest is an american invention (see ALL your TV Police series). Here, as in all European law, of which Dutch is one of, a case is considered solved, only if after a trial, somebody has been convicted of the crime, not anytime before. When the 2 guards were arrested, they were never called the perpetrators, they were officially only being interrogated in the matter of the dissappearence of NH. That's why they have been let loose, and JVDS and K2 were arrested and held way much longer.
By the way, both security guards were born in Aruba, its Joran (born in the Netherlands) and the Kalpoes (born in Surinam) that are the 'foreigners' in this case.
As per respect for NH and family, from day one the Aruban community was involved. The goverment closed all it's offices for half a day, and had more than 6000 government workers looking all over the island for NH, dive groups (where I was part of one) and walking groups would look and dive in their free time for NH. The problem with BT came that on the Monday of her last visit she stated on Aruban TV: " I have never used the word boycott and I never will". And guess what, the NEXT day, she is standing next to the Governor of Alabama, promoting a boycott to Aruba. Talking about a forked tongue. Now, as a parent and steph-grandparent, I understand that you must try everything to find your daughter, but while everybody talks about the good people of Aruba and the bad people of the Aruban government, they all promote a boycott, that won;'t hurt the government, but it will hurt the good poeple of Aruba. Check out any boycott of the last 50 years and tell me who got hurt: Fidel, Gadaffi, Saddam only got ousted when the US invaded Iraq, not beqause of any boycott. In Cuba, Libya and Irak it's the poor people who lose their jobs, and have no menas of supporting themselves, because of a boycott.
The other side effect of this boycott is now also that the Arubans now see it, not as a case of finding Natalle, but now more a case of us against them (NH, BT, DH, the US, etc). Diev groups and Wlaking clubs have stopped searching, people who first thought ill of JVDS and K2 are now actually supporting them. PVDS was sworn in as a lawyer, and I haven't heard anybody on Aruba talk bad about that, while before the boycott, he hardly had a life in Aruba. BT made it very difficult for herself to come back, which is always sad, because her presence in Aruba put more pressure on the ALE and goverment, than anything else (as per that, I hope she can still come back to Aruba to keep putting pressure). So for Natalee the boycott worked against the effort. It was shortly AFTER the first call for a boycott of Aruba that I saw the first grafitti of "Fuck NH" appear, NOT before.
Allright, I hope to have answered everything. Keep those questiuons coming guys and girls. Because we still need to find NH.
Walter in Aruba
I was going to post my replies to Walter tonight, but I think I will wait until Friday to give people more time to throw in their two cents worth. I already have a list of issues, and at some point I am going to post how and what Americans who support Beth in general (not necessarily the boycott alone) think about all this. Might give Aruba an insight into American culture and psyche. Even now from Walter's posts I can see he doesn't fully understand still.
Two posts: the first (just to show what a great, magnanimous, and patient guy I am) for mrskrass:
Why does this have to be so public?
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Ask Iva and Ron Bradley how far the investigation into their daughter Amy's disappearance in nearby Curacao went once the media attention died down. Face it: if not for the media attention, Natalee would be another Amy Bradley.
Why is it about Beth and not Natalee?
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Well, either alive and kidnapped or deceased, Natalee can't help herself. It might appear to be about Beth, but this attention and the support it is raising will pressure Aruba to do everything it can to find Natalee, not cover up for the van der Sloots and their friends. I don't understand how you can say it is all about Beth just because she is spearheading the effort to find Natalee no matter what the cost!
Why does she associate herself with people like Joe M.?
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What do you mean, people like Joe M? Do you mean ex-criminals (key term here being ex-) or do you mean wealthy philantrophists who specialize in finding missing persons?
Why is it ok for Beth to lie, but not for a couple of teenagers?
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You prove to me that Beth lied. So far it has been her word against ALE's and the suspects' and neither can prove or disprove the other is lying. It depends on who you think is the good guy or the bad guy. And remember, 'we all lie'...or is there some kind of double standard here I'm not aware of?
where is the BIG NEWS Beth promised us months ago? Was it the fake Skeeters tapes? If it was, why does she never mention them again?
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I can't answer this one...though I suspect the bombshell she promised got broke down into little snippets to keep attention on this case.
Why does she keep going on Dr Phil's show after those tapes were proven to be tampered with? Why does she keep associating herself with people like him?
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The fact that there is still discussion about the authenticity of the tapes suggests to me that the results are not as cut and dry in people's minds as Walter thinks. Last I heard, Jaime Skeeters was willing to testify about what Deepak told him, even in light of this controversy. And incidentally, the question of 'edited' (as in editied for content and time constraints) versus 'altered' (as in deliberately cut and pasted) was NEVER settled.
What happened to all the money that was donated? What was it spent on (besides new cars, outfits, etc)?
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Please provide receipts or even photos of Beth's new clothes and new car and I will ask her about it myself. But I have a question for you- why don't you ask about how much hotels, taxis, meals, and plane tickets cost for Beth to continue her crusade? Why aren't you asking about how much money her and Jug racked up in their stay on Aruba? Last I heard it was over $30,000 on one credit card alone! Also, please ask the Aruban government to provide receipts for all the money they supposedly spent on this and that and we'll compare notes eh?
I have no problem with you putting her on a pedestal, but I don't think she's a saint and I wouldn't put her on a pedestal. That's all. I think she's the mother of a missing teenager. Like there are so many in the US and all over the world. Beth is not any more special than any of those mothers. Pay some attention to them as well! They deserve it!
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They ARE getting attention, especially now that Beth is involved with TES and with kicking off her own campaign of travel safety among teens. But let's get one thing straight: Beth has been blessed with resources and contacts that most parents of missing persons simply do not have. How is this fact somehow her fault or a strike against her? Sounds to me like you should change your handle to, 'mrspetty' or maybe 'mrsenvy'
Incidentally, the fact that Beth is starting to look at ways to help others is a classic sign exhibited by people who survived a terrible ordeal of some kind. It is the same reason many rape victims join or start support groups, or why burglary victims often start neighborhood watch groups (for example). It is why Tim Miller founded TES...
And now the response for Walter- at least in part. The things I do not address I will come back to as soon as I ask some people close to the investigation some questions.
1. First of all, it seems to me that Natalee's character is a non-issue as far as Walter and I are concerned. I move that we agree on this point and drop it...even though that does not answer why ALE is still so hung up on Natalee's 'physical and mental state', if she was drunk or not, or if she was a virgin when she disappeared or not. IF this isn't an issue, why is ALE still acting like this will break the case? I think it is because if they can reasonably claim Natalee ran away, they wil try to weasel out of this. Never mind the fact that Natalee doesn't fit the profile of a runaway... And these tabes that more than one person has claimed exist: if they do exist and they do show what you claim, where is the PROOF? ALE keeps making all these claims that, quite frankly, they cannot prove! Walter, we will NOT take ALE on its word, especially now!
2. Let me remind you that an AMERICAN girl is missing in ARUBA, not an ARUBAN girl missing in the U.S.! Like it or not, the Dutch and Aruban system of law is under scrutiny here, not the American ways. And as far as throwing out numbers, well...that is a game you won't win against me. According to the NCIC (records division of the FBI), as of 2005 there are 48,056 missing persons of all ages in the U.S. and this includes foriegn visitors who are missing in the U.S. The 2005 population of the U.S. is 281,421,906. The CIA Factbook says that Aruba's estimated population as of 2005 is 71,566. OK, let's look at this percentagewise: if we assume that a whopping 48056 people are missing in the U.S. right now, then with a 2005 population of 281,421,906 then the percentage of the total population of the U.S. including assumed missing foriegners is 0.0002% For Aruba, assuming a population of 71,566 and our one missing person Natalee, then the number you get for Aruba is ...wait for it...0.000014%. When you look at percentages you see a whole lot of decimal places either way don't you?Incidentally, my hometown has a population of twice this and it has not had ONE missing persons case since recrods were first kept in 1918! Aruba ain't doing as good as you think compared to the U.S.
Of course this does not answer questions like, what is the ratio of investigators and police to regular citizens in Aruba versus that of the U.S.? It also doesn't take into account that the U.S. publishes full crime statistics every year, but Aruba has not published full crime statistics since 1998 (missing stats include sexual assaults, kidnappings, and missing persons- now if these categories are all soooo low, why haven't they been compiled)? Remember that saying: those who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear. Where are those crime statistics and tourism figures, anyway?
Walter, there is another issue that looms large in our minds, too- and I'm afraid what you've already posted will hang you on this issue. Aruba is a soveriegn country, is it not? Well then...who is making sure that the Aruban government and ALE are doing all they can in full honesty and not covering up this crime and those responsible? You see Walter- and this IS an issue I would like you to address- Aruba seems to lack any system of oversight and acountability. Oduber promised to review the whole procedure after it is done, but that doesn't keep things from being botched right now! Seems to me that a little pressure on the ALE team immediately and on a daily basis might do them some good...maybe persuade them to work a little harder or a little more honestly. Unlike in the U.S. where there is ALWAYS someone evaluating your job performance (government employee or not), who in Aruba is making sure that ALE is going by the book and that all these allegations are false? I'm sorry, but 8 months of no progress leads me to believe that somebody has and is STILL sabotaging the investigation. You can crow about O.J. and Michael Jackson and Jonbenet Ramsey all you want, but the fact is each of these cases showed America that our justice system is not perfect; we are not in denial like Aruba seems to be. Do you recall how the first FBI agents who went to Aruba described the Aruban legal circles? They used the word, 'incestuous', meaning that all Aruban judges, prosecutors, and attorneys all know each other professionally and personally. With that kind of relationship, I doubt how any investigation or trial in Aruba can be fair and impartial! Why do you think Beth and Dave petitioned that Janssen, Jacobs, and Dompig be removed from the case and people with no previous relationship to Aruba or its legal circles be brought in? Bringing in new people from the same locale did nothing to convicne Americans that the investigation has not been seriously compromised! I mean, ALE doesn't have enough evidence to prove murder- if they did Joran would be at trial now. So...what if Natalee was kidnapped and ALE is still investigating a murder because nobody is making sure they are competent NOW? There are enough Americans and Arubans who think natalee was kidnapped...but that is on the back burner isn't it?
The FBI said ALE was doing a good job months ago, back when Beth and Dave still thought so too. I wouldn't be surprised if their opinion has changed by now...
ALE blames the FBI for not acting quicker to allow access to the MB kids, but in reality ALE wasted a lot of time by trying to get to them outside of FBI protocols! Do you wonder why the FBI is usually so quiet about this case but they spoke a lot about the joint ALE/FBI re-questioning that just concluded? I'll tell you: Natalee's family AND the FBI were concerned that ALE would twist the interrogations around to make an excuse to drop the whole investigation if the FBI were not there to watch them! How does THAT make you feel about America's opinion of ALE?
There is also a claim of how the Dutch system does not release information, and how they don't communicate with Beth because of her media exposure. You emntioned that this is the same in the U.S. and that is true. But again, in the U.S. a victim's family doesn't have to investigate on their own and help out the police because the police are fully competent! Everything Beth talked about HER people found out and tipped ALE off to...and then sat by and watched that information fall to the wayside again and again. You can't blame Beth for that- she 'blew the whistle' on what she believes is a corrupt, manipulated, dishonest polis force and investigation. This also makes me wonder...why was Dave cut off the same way when he was rarely on TV and never discussed the things Beth did? Was it because ALE's divide and conquer tactic didn't work?
A final thought about the Aruban searchers: it is great that they got so involved- and again nobody has criticized the Aruban people, only ALE and the government. But keep in mind that private property was not searched- and I can think of at least two that should've been! Again it comes down to ALE, who was directing the searches. All the finger-pointing and controversies ALWAYS come back to ALE and Oduber's administration.
Walter, I understand and accept the position of Aruba being a sovereign state. That is just not the issue. Repeatedly, Aruban officials from every level, the PM to the tourist committee have said the FBI has played a role to some degree in this nightmare. True it is, even with sharing of some evidence although Aruban officials have off and on denied this. But, I dare say you would be hard pressed to find many Americans who believe the FBI has played any role other than sitting in a corner. Yes, Aruba would have to ask for the FBI to assist them, that is a given. Explain to me why they would NOT ask for help, especially when faced with the public relations disaster created by some monster on May 30, not of the country’s making incidentally; but more importantly while facing a public relations disaster the government created themselves. Was “saving face” more important than keeping hotels full? Was saving face more important than seeing tourists dollars fly to Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic or The Bahamas? Or, and sadly this is how many American feel, were the Aruban officials scared of what just may be discovered. How simple it would have been for the sovereign government to ask and accept freely the world-renowned assistance of the FBI in finding a lost American teenager. Why would Aruban law enforcement lie repeatedly about the FBI’s involvement? Many times reports were made to American and world wide media that the FBI were assisting, only for something to occur which revealed the extremely limited role they actually had. Just imagine how much credibility the Aruban government would have had if they would have allowed the FBI to truly assist as they much as necessary. Even if the results would have been the same, the world’s travelers would have known that this country went all out to try and solve this mystery, and would feel so much safer walking the streets, beaches and shops of Aruba. Sadly what has resulted in Aruba not accepting the FBI’s full assistance is simply a stench of corruption when that may not be truth of the matter.
I have to sort of agree with you here. I think in an attempt for the family to convince the world they did not believe Natalee would have just ran away or decided to enter some distasteful lifestyle, they went overboard with the good girl routine. She was probably just an all-American teenage 18 yr old girl. With all the same general faults girls of that age have. To the family, she is an angel. But realistically she is just a teenager who was just as apt to make mistakes as the next girl. The efforts to protect Natalee’s reputation and to present her as an angel actually backfired in my opinion. Now sadly this attempt to be sure to keep Natalee’s reputation undamaged, has made is appear that the family was actually covering up something. I see this and understand it. However, using a giant paintbrush to smear some teenagers who were drinking and partying while on a vacation does not by any means she or any other child deserves what has happened. How simple this would have been if the Aruban government, instead of making excuses, giving false leads and hopes had actually “worked” this case from the beginning simply using world-wide accepted investigative techniques.
My apologies, I should have said Bulgarian instead of Belgium. Regarding the remains, I speak of the piece of bones turned into ALE found by various people, as reported in Diario and Amigoe. I am not even including the arm found in Venezuela, nor the hairs on duct tape which were reported not to be from Natalee. I have said this before, as having lived on the coast of the US for a majority of my life, neither human nor animal remains do not commonly wash up on shore. I am alarmed at the statement of 2 unsolved murders in 30 years. I have to wonder after having watched the way the Aruban police work in this case, just how those cases were solved. I note how simple it would have been for the 2 innocent immigrant security guards to have been framed for this disappearance.
No, here in the US an arrest does not “solve” a crime. We have trials and even then the result is not always an answer. I will tell you this; a lying suspect just becomes more of a suspect, unlike Aruba where a suspect is allowed, even expected to lie to the authorities, while a witness is not. There is no legal logic to that. Even if these three boys are innocent of any wrongdoing regarding Natalee, they are proven liars. What the American people have seen over and over in this case, is that lying to the police authorities is does not “seem” to matter to either the Aruban police nor the judiciary. Again, this only adds to the stench in this case, perhaps even undeservedly.
Actually, the guards are not Aruban. They had lived there for many yrs but still were considered immigrants. Johns mother says as much in an interview with Nancy Grace (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/08/ng.01.html). ( Please, my friend, don’t faint because I typed her name to you! LOL)
I thought the use of government employees to search was a wonderful thing, and especially good PR. However, action does not mean progress. I am sure Aruba has spent an ungodly fortune in this case, however, they brought it on themselves handling the investigation the way they have. I am afraid the day is soon to arrive, when the Arubans will say “case closed” we have done this and we have done that and yet nothing. This case is declared closed. All the while, these big productions of draining ponds and digging in landfills are not where the truth lies. It more than likely lies with the 3 boys last seen with Natalee; one of who has a father well-connected in the judiciary, no matter how you slice it. Americans will remember that and they will remember how roadblocks were placed in front of searchers repeatedly, they will remember the stench of corruption. What is even worse, Americans will not realize that the average Aruban citizen is probably just as upset at they way their leaders handled this case, not realizing how economic measures will harm the average Aruban family. What Americans will know is that should an Aruban leaders child went missing under the same circumstances as Natalee did, liars would not be leaving the country, DNA would not be thrown out of court, many other things, including allowing suspects to have their legal fees paid by suing the government or keeping 2 innocent men on as suspects, while letting the actual suspects walk free. This is what Americans will remember when planning vacations or even talking about Aruba. The “Happy Little Island” has allowed its police and government to totally ruin its reputation and place in the world. Only criminals, drug and human traffickers will benefit from the scent of corruption.
Walter, I hate to say these things. I regret I feel this way; I honestly do with all my heart. The thing is, it is not to late for the Arubans to turn this thing around. They still could ask and receive investigative assistance. Like I said, even if the result is the same, that we don’t find Natalee, Aruba will at least look like they actually cared about Americans, not just American dollars. Americans would flock there, because they would know Aruba actually cared.
Kackylacky
One thing I forgot to mention but I was reminded of when reading Dan’s last post was about the Aruban and apparently Dutch rules against revealing investigation information to the public and family. If this is true, then how does the tourist industry, and all the talking heads around it, have access to more information than the victims family has? Apparently this rule of not releasing information only applies to entities without a financial stake in the case. Where is the logic with accusing the family of releasing information to the media, yet this charge is not leveled against Arlene schiffer (sic) or Cohen.
It seems to most Americans the rules change daily, and solely depend on how the wind is blowing that day.
Americans see that the only source of information coming out of Aruba in the last months is coming from the tourist industry. The very industry that is only interested in our money, not our safety. Well, Americans will not spend those precious dollars if they don’t feel safe doing so, plain and simple.
This case has shown just how corrupt Auba is and how far they are willing to go to cover it up. There is no truth in Aruba other then they just dont care and are willing to try and cover this case up. There will be Justice for Natalee with out Aruba's help. Someone will be a Hero in a country of cowards. Someone will come forward with the answers .Time is running out for the men who did this.
I find it so strange that so many people profess to know the truth of what happened to this young girl and are so strident and even aggressive in their opinions. It says more about you than it does about the facts of this case. I am appraising myself of this from the other side of the world and it seems to me that the main problem commentators and bloggers have is that the Aruban investigation doesn't recognise that the US has a better justice and investigative system, that Americans should have preferencial treatment and because you are the world's superpower you should use influence to get a result that no-one else is entitled to. What happens if that result is not the one your preconception desires? America seems to have so many cases of a similar nature that are unsolved.
Don't think your unfulfilled lives and your prejudices have any relevence to the truth of this.
I sincerely hope that this young person is alive but that is not likely. If a crime has been committed then I hope the perpetrators are brought to justice. If what has happened was a tragic accident then I also hope that is revealed.
But why are Americans so arrogant that they can say the things that are on this site, the usual suspects and many others?
I am coming to your country in about 10 weeks time and I take great comfort in knowing that the people who write this shit are people like me, who just don't have in their life what it needs to function as a normal human being. I might just fit in!
I posted the article of 02/26/06 just to address this particular Anonymous comment.
I can't help but wonder- of all the (obviously) Arubans who post here- how many of the most hateful are white, or Dutch?
I will try to answer your questions as soon as I can, Deb. It will take me a few days to check back with Dave and Art and see what questions they can answer and which ones they cannot or will not due to the investigation.
I can answer a few, though.
2. Beth found out through a confidential source that Joran was able to describe Natalee's private parts to his friends, but of course he wasn't asked about this under questioning- one of the many things about that interrogation that made the FBI walk out in disgust. If that doesn't indicate 'serious intimate contact' then what does? Of course he did admit to having sex with Natalee in early statements, but changed his story when he (or his daddy) realized that was making him look very bad.
5. In Dutch and Aruban law, it is NOT illegal for suspects to lie to police as long as they are not actually ON the stand under oath. In fact, Dutch investigators take the stance that they are expected to be lying! So basically, Joran and K2 can lie all they want and change their stories all they want as long as they are not under oath. Just one of many serious problems this supposedly great investigative system has.
8. The radar in Aruba, even if functioning properly, is not able to pick up small craft in rainy weather or very rough waters- rain and extreme wave action disrupt the return signals. DOmpig is lying AND contradicting himself when he says the radar is foolproof.
9. The plans for a deep water search have been postponed indefinitely as far as I know. The Arubans have yet to explain why in light of the fact that they don't have to pay a single florin toward this expense!
15. There is absolutely no agreement between Aruba and the U.S. for mutual cooperation by law enforcement beyond the DEA anti-drug operations. However- this is an important thing to realize- there is NOTHING that prevents full inclusion of the FBI into this investigation in Dutch OR Aruban laws! Keep in mind that no precedence does NOT equal illegality, it simply means it is a new situation not covered by existing policies. Aruba has full control over if the FBI is allowed to help and how they are. Remember that.
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